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A ‘High Society’ Conversation with Robyn Twomey

A ‘High Society’ Conversation with Robyn Twomey

"Jordan", 2010, archival pigment print, 40 x 30 inches

Last year, on the eve of California’s historic (and unsuccessful) attempt to legalize pot, photographer Robyn Twomey created a documentary series on medical marijuana.  Her startlingly intimate portraits of patients are on view at Patricia Sweetow Gallery through April 2.  She spoke about the project with SC editor and publisher David M. Roth.

How did this project begin?

I was hired by Fortune in the fall of 2009 to photograph “Medical Marijuana’s High Society," a piece that focused on a few of the more prominent dispensaries and owners.  While I was at Harborside Healthcare Center in Oakland, I met 19-year- old Jordan who shared his story of leukemia and the benefits of cannabis. At the same time, the photo editor, Scott Thode, felt we needed some client perspective to round out the piece, and he encouraged me to do that even though it wasn’t part of the original assignment. At the time, I was just starting to flirt with video, so I asked Jordan if I could do a short interview and portrait session at his house and he agreed.

It was Jordan’s story of struggle and survival that broke my heart and inspired me to find more stories. It wasn’t the angle of the Fortune story, but I thought it could be a great personal series.  I wanted to share what I was learning about people who depend on

How did you persuade people to work with you? 

At first, I tried to talk to patients directly, but most were hesitant and didn’t want to be stereotyped or discriminated against because of the frail legality around cannabis.  So, I talked to a couple dispensaries and Harborside was the most supportive.  The clients trusted Harborside and the ones who signed on were people with an activist spirit, people tired of the cannabis backlash. They signed up, hoping their story would help educate and decriminalize cannabis.  I was doing a lot of the shooting in 2010 — before the vote on Prop 19, the initiative that would have legalized marijuana, and that propelled a lot of energy and excitement for the project.

"Lilly", 2010, archival pigment print, 40 x 30 inches

What were you feelings about medicinal marijuana prior to the assignment? 

I had a few friends who got cards to get in on high quality product, but I didn’t know anyone personally who was taking it for more than recreational use.  So, I suppose in that regard, I didn’t think about it. There was a dispensary on my block that was staked out and eventually raided and shut down by homeland security, and I always found it odd that homeland security funds were allocated to shutting down dispensaries.  But it just wasn’t personal enough for me to really even care about it.

When I began documenting people’s stories, I went from feeling indifferent to feeling passionately connected to each of my subjects and the injustice they felt that something that is helping them is constantly being threatened by the legal system. That stigma can really have a negative effect on people, causing some to feel unnecessary shame.  Ann, one of the subjects, told me a lot of older people who are suffering and taking heavy meds are afraid of cannabis because all the controversy surrounding it. 

What were some of the reoccurring themes that emerged in your conversations?

The most ubiquitous sentiment was the overall dissatisfaction with prescription drugs. People would complain about how ineffective prescription drugs are, or how overly sedated they make you feel. People were sometimes taking cannabis instead of prescription drugs, but were often taking cannabis to counteract specific side effects from prescription drugs. A lot of people also talked about cannabis relieving anxiety.  Sleep and appetite were other common themes.

It was quite eye opening to hear how many prescription drugs are pushed on people, and how negatively they affect them.  People using cannabis for medicine are prescribing the doses themselves and are tuning in to their bodies to figure out how much works for them. I can see why that is terrifying for the pharmaceutical business.

"Anne 3", 2010, archival pigment print, 30 x 40 inches
 

You mix environmental portraits and close-ups.  Most are extreme close-ups.  Why did you take that approach?

I’ve always been a big fan of the formal head shot. I thought it would be a great opportunity to take such a formal approach and subvert the formality with a currently perceived taboo.  It was also a great opportunity to use smoke as a spontaneous visual element. The formal head shot is the control and the smoke is the unpredictable element that transcends intention — the magic that cannot be directed. The smoke becomes a second character in the image, which can only be successfully translated in the close ups.

Several of the subjects seem to be consciously avoiding exposure to the camera; their eyes and faces are almost entirely concealed by smoke. 

"Giants", 2010, archival pigment print, 40 x 30 inches

For the most part, my direction was to not look at the camera, because I wanted the viewer to witness people in a moment of their own, rather than a moment for me or the public.  I asked them to try and forget that the camera was there, and to just focus on their breath. There is a psychological intensity in all of us that I’m constantly looking to document, and I’m sure that influenced my edit. One reviewer saw the look in their eyes as needing cannabis, as opposed to wanting it. And I think that is an interesting angle to consider. If and when I asked the subject to look at the lens, I asked them to just let go and just be as honest as possible.

Smoke is an irresistible and deliciously evocative visual motif which you’ve made the most of.  I can’t help think, when I look at these pictures, of Herman Leonard’s famous portrait of Dexter Gordon.

Before this series, I never wanted people to smoke in my images. I considered it so cliché. But since I was documenting, it didn’t feel like I was glorifying or idealizing smoke. It was purposeful. I even asked people to create more smoke if possible, to magnify the hazy exhale so I could use it as a main element. I never asked people to smoke more than they wanted to. In some cases, people only wanted to take a couple tokes, so I was only able to capture about 3 or 4 frames.

The Dexter Gordon image from Herman Leonard, and other smoky nostalgic images from that era, surely informed my decision on a subconscious level to document cannabis patients. But I was just as informed by the work of August Sander, Julia Margaret Cameron, and my mom, who I watched smoke (cigarettes) everyday growing up. 

All of the people in your pictures are smoking weed because they are ill.  Yet none of them look sick.  Most of them seem overwhelming melancholy.  This is not a trait we normally associate with getting high.  What’s going on here? 

Through my interviews, I learned that you don’t have to necessarily look ill to be in a lot of pain, or to be dealing with a lot of issues. There are people dealing with everything from leukemia to anxiety in this series.

"Robert" and "Karen", 2010, archival pigment print, 40 x 30 inches
 

The series is not without humor.  The elderly woman lighting up at the piano holding a cat certainly plays against stereotypes, while the guy with the full body tattoo plays directly into the popular image of stoners.  The two kind of balance each other out in that regard.  Did you learn anything about medical pot that really surprised you? 

The entire project was a great learning process into the unnecessary stigma associated with cannabis, the different strands of cannabis and how they uniquely affect people, the really crazy world of pharmaceuticals and most of all the politics. Ann (the lady with the cat) summed it up well when she said, "There’s something wrong in America with feeling good. I don’t know what it is. Yes, it relieves my pain. And yes, it makes me euphoric." 

Last question: Did your subjects offer to get you high as part of the exchange and if so, how did you handle it? 

Most people take their medicine very seriously, and it’s very expensive. Just a couple times people offered, but it wouldn’t be something I could handle while working.

After the very first shoot, my assistant and I were leaving Oakland and approached High Street. We had to pull over from laughing so hard at the street sign. That’s when I realized that having the subject blow smoke toward the lens was giving us quite a contact high. It was a definite perk that made continuing the project that much more enjoyable.

Robyn Twomey: “Medicine” @ Patricia Sweetow Gallery through April 2, 2011.

Learn more about Robyn Twomey.

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Robert Ortbal @ JAYJAY

Robert Ortbal @ JAYJAY

"Architecture of a Scent", 2010,

In an age when the virtual and the real are becoming increasingly intertwined, Robert Ortbal’s transformations of the everyday into the otherworldly seem like perfect evocations of this predicament. Crafted in a variety of media, the works range from gnarly and gangly to delicate and poetic.  In many cases, you will not know what they are made of without touching them or being told.  Thus, Styrofoam, Astroturf, steel, e-waste, wood and rubber pet toys become grist for objects that seem both strange and familiar.  Re-purposed with resin, paint and flocking, they mimic a variety of man-made and natural forms.

The allusions produced by these visual sleights of hand include microscopic views of chemical reactions, deep-sea organisms, exotic plants, constellations and hybrid mash-ups of concepts that exist only in the artist’s imagination.  That they call to mind things we know (or think we know) is merely a by-product of a working process that began some years back when the artist tried to envision what 2-D patterns might look like if they were translated to three dimensions.  That investigation quickly led to something bigger: a search for essences.  Not actual essences, as in molecular structures, but unfathomable things, like the physical structure of smells as they exist in psychological, emotional and sensory space.  

"Badlands", 2010, foam, resin, wood, silicon carbide, flock and paint

The most radical example in Ortbal’s oeuvre is his longstanding Architecture of a Scent series — sculptures that attempt to give form to the state of sensory confusion known as synesthesia.  The series began with spindly projections of wires festooned with Styrofoam balls, but has since evolved into objects of greater mass and proportion, such as Architecture of a Scent: Somewhere off the Coast of Davenport.  It contains no visible remnants of the coastal hamlet north of Santa Cruz.  What we get instead is an ungainly construction that looks like a series of exhaust pipes embedded in a coral reef.  Mounted to a pinkish slab of weighty material that’s stained to resemble faux marble, the whole assemblage, which is attached to a hinge, can be swung from side to side, like a gate with a malignant growth.

In Oz, to take another example, a plastic container assumes the guise of a granite vessel sprouting a piece of molded resin. It looks like tree fungus.  Arising from this protuberance is a miniature “broadcast tower” decorated with calculator keys.  The object’s cavity contains pieces of Styrofoam carved to look like railroad spikes.  Elsewhere in the show, which consists of eight sculptures and three intaglio prints, the artist uses Styrofoam and other synthetic materials to evoke jewel-encrusted treasures, aerial views of primordial landscapes, sea plants and floating cities.

While Ortbal, like many contemporary sculptors, uses everyday items and non-traditional art materials, his is a unique voice – one that’s pushing sculpture into the post-industrial future. While this work may at first register as a symptom of this confused, polymorphous state, the longer you look the more its insistent materiality begins to feels like the antidote to that condition – or, at the very least, a viable marker for what lies ahead.

–DAVID M. ROTH

Robert Ortbal: Different Parts of Remembering @ JAYJAY through Dec. 23, 2010.

 The Robert Ortbal Interview

Robert Ortbal

David M. Roth: When I look at your work, I always think that materials speak to you in the same way high-frequency sounds speak to animals: in them you “hear” things most of us can’t.  Do materials, by themselves, suggest forms?

Robert Ortbal: Thanks, I like that metaphor. These days I seem to be a true omnivore when it comes to materials. Back when I was an undergraduate I worked almost exclusively in clay; but by the time I was in graduate school I was exploring all different kinds of materials and processes. Once I finished school, large-scale installations using domestic or household materials became my focus.  To answer your question, sometimes materials suggest forms; but often they don’t.  I wouldn’t want to be classified as a found object artist. I have always wanted to have a lot of latitude when it comes to developing my work. I spend a lot of time in the studio, so I want to have as much fun as I can in while still approaching the work in a serious and provocative way. Typically, I develop imagery and then search out the right materials and processes to get at what I want to say.

DR: You use things like flocking and resin very skillfully – not just to conceal the identity of your materials but to make them closely resemble things they are not.  I’m thinking, specifically of Oz, where plastic hose has the color and texture of granite.  I realize that the gulf between appearance and reality has always been central your work, but now I’m feeling as if you’ve taken it to a higher level.

"Infinitesimal Star", 2009, foam, resin, wood, steel, flock and paint

RO: I have been interested, for a while now, in making work about things that are ineffable. I use a wide variety of materials and processes as a means to express things and spaces that are very difficult to talk about. In the past I have likened my materials to spores, which I can replicate and mutate into objects, inviting the audience to use their imagination: to see the Rococo as modern; packing foam as a petri-dish; rubber balls, wire and Styrofoam beads as a nervous system. Recently, I have started to juxtapose all of these domestic materials, gleaned from places like Dollar Store and Home Deport with organic materials and traditional sculpture supplies. When I bring them together, a new reality emerges and the sculptures begin singing their own shrill quirky songs. 

DR: You’ve stated that you strive to give form to essences.  But my sense is that for you, essence means something quite different from what it might mean for a scientist.  Essence for you seems to be more about the nature of how we perceive rather than the actual properties of the thing being perceived.  Care to comment?

"Oz", 2009, plastic garden valve cover, foam, resin, wire, dissected calculator numbers

RO: Yes, it is more like the way I imagine a poet trying to describe an object or a place. Although at times, since I am working with actual materials and the physical processes, there is a kinship with the scientists since we have to observe and pay close attention to what is really happening with the materials and objects and not get too lost in the theories and what I imagine the work is saying.

DR: Describe your working process.  

RO: Oh boy…that’s difficult! (Long pause.) Often, it begins as a very simple sketch or short phrase jotted down in one of the many notebooks I keep and develop over time. Depending on when the entry goes into the notebook and what I am working on at the time, its gestation period can vary dramatically — from hours to years. I often rework and scour my notebooks at the beginning of a new cycle or when I get stuck on a particular work during the fabrication process. I certainly revisit them whenever I am about to begin an installation and when I go about titling the work.  Next, depending on the idea entered into the notebook, I source the materials and begin fabrication. Occasionally, the process can be clean and neat and I proceed to the finish line in a timely manner. More likely, the piece evolves and at times even stalls only to later morph into something else. Sometimes I will recombine parts or materials from years past to make a work that gets at what I am searching for.

DR: Your work departs from any reality we know, yet it also seems well-grounded in things we do know – or things we think we know.  Is that your intention, to operate in this gap?

"Surrender", 2010, styrofoam cups, resin, wire, paint, metal flake, flock

RO:  I have always been interested in exploring what is seen and unseen.  A good example is my Architecture of a Scent series.  That gap in the work and the awkward reality it portrays stems from the source of their construction being rooted in imagery that is equal parts real and imagined. I use this strange combination of the natural and the artificial to express the tensions that exist between the past and the future, technology and the body, the rational and the mystical and the individual and society.

DR: You mentioned Architecture of a Scent, a concept that involves giving form to smell: something that has no inherent shape.   The title immediately calls to mind the sensory affliction known as synesthesia. How did you become interested in this?

RO: This is not something I believe I have or have ever studied. However, back in the ‘90s when I was making a lot of installation-based works, I was interested in making something that engaged more of the senses.  I used scent in installations many times for its olfactory responses because I liked the way it can trigger memory so much faster than purely visual works. I even liked what it did for the work when the scent was only implied, like using cut onions. They could suggest tears and crying even though, phenomenologically speaking, they had begun to whither and dry out and had long since lost their actual power. So I guess the intermingling of sensory information these days comes more from my imagination. Again, it’s closer to poets’ methods and motives than to scientists’.

detail: "Architecture of a Scent"

DR: People always liken your work to oceanic forms.  Given the way a lot of it looks it seems impossible not to.  Yet the association, at least from what you’ve said before, bothered you.  Why? 

RO: Well not always. I think it was more prevalent about five years ago when I was really interested in creating hybrids by crossing parts of the plant, animal, and mineral kingdoms with certain sensibilities from the Rococo and Art Nouveau periods. During that time, the work, I agree, really spoke of oceanic forms. The coral-like forms, in particular, spoke beautifully to the nature of hybridization.  Coral, which is really diverse order of the animal kingdom, is commonly mistaken for a plant, so when it came to creating hybrids, coral was an obvious choice. The oceanic association only bothered me when people stopped at this most obvious read of the work and didn’t take the time to see how it opened up into all the other associations I had built into the work.

DR: You’ve stated that you try to not create things from direct observation, but in this show there are at least two pieces that seem to have been directly inspired by observation.  I’m thinking of Sometime around Sunset which strongly recalls the spires of Bryce Canyon, and Badlands, which resembles a piece of the Earth’s crust viewed from a high elevation.  If so, does this represent a different working method?  The pieces are quite unlike what I’ve seen from you in the past. 

RO: The geography of Southern and Central Utah where Bryce Canyon is located has always had a very strong attraction for me. It is as if the flesh (i.e. the trees) has been scraped back to expose the bones of the place. Even the color of the rock has a way of changing my mood.

"Remembering", 2009, intaglio print

When I drive out into the red rock I get more and more excited the closer and closer I get to such places. So yes, the works are certainly inspired by these places; however they are not based on direct observation of a specific geographic location. Instead, it’s is more like a distillation all of the canyons I have visited.

Also, these works do represent a different method of working. They begin with subtraction, which is really a different sensibility from the collage and assemblage fabrication techniques I often use. I carved these forms from blocks of foam a year or two ago and then I put them away for awhile.  Then, I covered them with layers and layers of resin and finally I surfaced them this summer and fall in time for the show.

DR: You’ve spoken of translating decorative 2-D patterns into 3-D forms.  It feels like an impossible task. Clearly this is something you either have to imagine from scratch or else use some kind of computer-based imaging system to accomplish.  How do you accomplish it?

RO: Around 2000 I got the idea to make a large chandelier-like sculpture. I had always wanted to make one but could never really justify what seemed like too much of an indulgence. Then I came up with the idea of substituting song for light. This felt significant enough – it gave me the permission to begin. At the time I really didn’t know what I was getting myself into. Looking back, it turned into a very important work for me titled February’s Song (it ended up being exhibited as part of the Eureka fellowship show at the UC Berkeley Art Museum). I often think about my exhibitions as being similar to a collection of poems. With this piece I realized it was more like working on a novel. I began by making 12 motorized songbirds — 12 wind instruments that sang and pecked away up in the 6-foot branches of the chandelier. They were activated with a motion sensor and choreographed electronically.  When it came to the chandelier form, I wanted to make something grand, something in the tradition of the great European chandeliers.  Since I hadn’t actually been to I planned a trip and followed it up with a residency at Sculpture Space in upstate NY to fabricate the work since my studio in Emeryville wasn’t equipped with all of the metal working tools I needed to do the job.

During the residency, I began to realize I was at the beginning of a 5 to 10 year project. Up until then I had very little interest in all of that really decorative work I labeled the “Baroque”. Now I became obsessed. I started reading all about it, and ended up making another trip back to study, first hand, what I now realize is the Rococo.

While I was absorbing all of the decorative and applied arts of the 18th century, I began to notice that when all of these wonderful patterns were executed, they typically were carved relief or, when they did get three-dimensional, they only went as far as the planer. I couldn’t really find any examples of truly three-dimensional works that employed the more complex patterns that were present in so many of the period’s two-dimensional works.

Ultimately, I did end up making a few works that, I feel, use a more complex pattern than simply repeating a single motif to occupy three-dimensional space. However, what starts to happen is the pattern begins to get so complicated that it breaks down in a sense because it becomes too difficult to read and you lose the rhythm and lyrical qualities that where delivered two-dimensionally.

DR: What contemporary artists do you feel a close connection to? 

RO: There are many artists in the Bay Area and a handful in Sacramento who I greatly respect and feel a very close connection to in the sense of having a continued dialogue about our work. But after having gotten so obsessed Rococo and Art Nouveau, I seem to be more and more connected to works of the past. A good example is the Hauntology show the Berkeley Art Museum.  I thought it was a really great.  However, it was the Flowers of the Four Seasons show from the Clark collection that really resonated with me. Those screens of gold from the late Edo period that traditionally served as room dividers flicker beautifully between brilliantly decorated furnishing for the home and tender glimpses of the natural world. They are really engaging and affected my mood more than the works in Hauntology, which people might expect me to be more in sync with. I visited the shows with my wife and remember mentioning to her afterwards how great I felt having seen all of those works. 

DR: What do you hope people get from looking at your work?

I like to leave people with questions –questions about what it means to be human.

Learn more about Robert Ortbal.

 

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Nigel Poor @ Haines Gallery, SF + Interview

Nigel Poor @ Haines Gallery, SF + Interview

 For the past two decades, Nigel Poor has collected and organized human detritus into photo-based mementos of various kinds. These conceptual, emotionally rich presentations range from clinically-lit studio photos of everyday objects to nostalgic “dioramas” of rotting organic matter to non-photographic works that stand as fully realized abstract "drawing".  

18 Years of Date Books, 2009,  graphite and red ink on paper, 2 color digital prints 14 x 22

Poor operates on the principle that the smallest, seemingly most mundane items are the very things that reveal the most about how we live and what we value. Poor, you could say, is a professional obsessive, a forensic artist who’s made a career out of highly focused hoarding. She is currently engaged in a multi-year project (Do You Have 30 Seconds and Can You Get Your Finger Dirty?) in which she has collected fingerprints from more than 8,000 friends and strangers and transformed them into images (some as tall as seven feet) that demonstrate, at a readable scale, the fact that the fingerprints are as varied as snowflakes. In another project (Hand Job) she photographed people’s hands in any gesture of their choice.  She’s also “mapped” her own random thoughts in reaction to external stimuli (like radio broadcasts), and accumulated and photographed junk that she collects on daily walks. All pretty much represent her taxonomic approach.

My Faith and Anguished Face Collection, 2009, graphite and red ink on paper, 2 color digital prints 11 x 25.5"

 

Here, in The Relative Value of Things, Poor takes a different approach: instead of collecting things, she discards once-valued personal effects and makes art objects out of stuff that has no apparent value: lint, hair and book pages. This upending of her normal working method and, of established ideas of value, yields some surprising results. In the case of the lint/hair/book works, the surprise is how beautiful and how painterly they are. 

Lint book covers, 2007-08, 10.5 x 8.5" each, digital color images 

Arrayed across an entire wall in sizes ranging from 4” x 4” to 16” x 20”, they read like mash-ups of Mark Rothko and Clifford Still, but with specific associations: rag piles, multi-colored viscera, aerial views of the Earth, smeared pigment, honeycombs and, in the case of those spin-cycled books, grains of oatmeal with almost-legible text. The hair pieces read like gestural line drawings with an arc and flow dictated by the texture of the collected specimens; they range from lyrical to frenzied. Poor also makes drawings from Letterset type by inscribing the word “insect” 6,000 times in a shape that approximates the patterns of squashed bugs that accumulated on panels that the artist affixed to her moving car for that purpose.  

Poor transforms these “value-less” materials into 36 unique book covers, displayed in grids of 12, with the Letterset pieces spelling out the sentence “Someday I will be as insignificant as a swarm of summer insects.”

Hair book covers, 2007-08, 10.5 x 8.5" each, digital color images 

 With that mantra in hand, Poor accepts Thoreau’s challenge to “Simplify, simplify, simplify.”  She examined the stuff in her life, decided what to keep and what to throw out and then photographed all of the discarded items. Those pictures, which form the uniform content of each book, are displayed across one wall in 2-page panels. Among the discarded items are dead bugs, a wedding band, a bra, books on religion, the butt of a marijuana cigarette, the artist’s hair collection, wisdom teeth, watches, income records, Polaroids from a previous project and baby shoes. For viewers, it’s a voyeuristic journey that puts trash and treasure on equal footing – and leaves wide-open the question of how we value things, while making clear that she who dies with the most toys probably isn’t the winner. 

Poor, however, doesn’t stop there. In an effort to engage the public in a similar self-cleansing ritual, she set up a website (www.nigelpoor-relativevalue.com) for people to report their purgative efforts. The results? Poor will use the postings (which can include both text and images) to create the final installment of The Relative Value of Things sometime after the website closes in May 2010. If the project catches hold, that is, if it goes global, one can easily imagine Poor as the chief curator of a pre-apocalyptic museum, creating displays that describe, in exacting detail, the excesses that make the human enterprise as poignant as it is doomed.

–David M. Roth
 
 
Nigel Poor’s The Relative Value of Things runs through Aug. 1, 2009 at Haines Gallery, SF, through Aug. 1, 2009. An artist-led audio tour of the exhibit is available at: (415) 226-3580.
 
Select works from Nigel Poor’s series Do You Have 30 Seconds and Can You Get Your Finger Dirty? and Hand Job are on view at Beatnik Studios, Sacramento, through July 28, 2009
 
Learn more about Nigel Poor: http://www.nigelpoor.com/
 

THE NIGEL POOR INTERVIEW

Nigel Poor
 David M. Roth: If I came to your studio right now what would I see?
 
Nigel Poor: Right now I am re-working a project called “Hand Job”. I started it in 2004. “Hand Job” is a simple photographic series that requires each person who visits my studio to be photographed wearing a white t-shirt that I supply. The image is a portrait of a hand against a white background.  I ask each person to place their hand on their chest, making whatever gesture they choose. Though it is not a traditional portrait, the hand supplies much of the same information found in the face.  Through the hand, things such as emotion, age, labor and experience are expressed.
 
I say I am re-working it for two reasons; one, I have recently gotten into working digitally, which absolutely amazes me because for years I railed against it saying I would never accept digital photography.  I still photograph with a 4×5 using film but I am scanning the negatives and making 20×24” digital prints on my new HP printer (not trying to advertise here).  But the really new development is that recently I had the opportunity to meet a man named Ralph Zackheim who is a very talented graphologist. He preformed an analysis of my handwriting and it was fascinating.  He describes handwriting this way: Every time we write we are drawing a picture and it is a drawing of what is in our mind.  Thinking about his quote and how writing is obviously related to the hand, I have decided to expand my “Hand Job” project and slightly change the direction. Over the next 4 months I am hosting three events where people will come to my studio to have their hand photographed and then have a private meeting with Zackheim to have their writing analyzed. I don’t know the exact outcome but the images will be combined with parts of Zackheim’s analysis.
 
I do tend to work on several projects at a time so if you visited you would also see some images of scanned hair, a shelf with pieces of books that have been washed and dried, bags of lint and human hair, piles of books with marginalia for a project I am thinking about and a stack of books I would love to read but will never get to.
 
 
DR:. Did you ever consider a career in anthropology or in the sciences?
Jonathan, Lint on Pane, 12 x6"l
 
NP: When I was in graduate school I worked at the Harvard Museum of Comparative Zoology in the entomology department. I spent my time primarily pinning insects and helping to organize the hundreds of trays that stored the insect collection.  At one point Nabokov worked there and there were lots of labels and notes in the drawers with his hand writing.  In one of the trays I discovered a note from a woman who had donated her husband’s entire insect collection. In the note it said he had disappeared while on a collection expedition to New Guinea and was assumed to have been “eaten by natives”. This was written in the late 19th century. There were so many treasures to discover; not just the insects but wonderful notes and things left behind by other people who had been there. 
 
In many ways, that experience dictates the way I work now. I love this idea of collecting and trying to understand the world through that model. I often think about working like a scientist but I also know that a real scientist would laugh at my concept of what it means to work in that mode
 
DR: After decades of collecting, what made you decide to start throwing things out?
 
NP: Well, perhaps it is my New England puritanical background. I really do believe as you get older you should own less and less and I want to live more prudently. Meaning, I want to use things wisely and learn to stop the wanting, to be more aware of the way I “need” things that aren’t necessary. So I thought if I made a project around this dichotomy, I would have to confront that impulse. When some people get anxious they eat or shop or drink. When I get nervous I throw things out. I think it is an attempt at control but dang it all, I still own too much so I will be working on this until the day I die. But really I want to just own what I need, not have an excessive amount of “stuff”. But I still collect lots of things, like found metal and books with interesting marginalia, other people’s lint and dirt from various places I travel through. I live in this contradiction of collecting and purging, and all that has changed is I grow more aware of it.
 
DR: Looking at your book, “The Relative Value of Things,” feels a bit voyeuristic. People see your wedding band, your bra, books you’re read, dope you’ve smoked, teeth that were once inside your head. Does putting that kind of information out there for the public make you a bit uncomfortable?  
 
Hair Collection and My Four Wisdom Teeth, 2009, graphite and red ink on paper, 2 color digital prints, 11 x 25.5"
 
NP: I know it should but it surprises me that it doesn’t because actually I am a fairly private, shy person; so this self-exposure portrays yet another personal contradiction. When I started making photographs in 1982 and up until say 1990 I did everything possible to keep things about myself out of it. I did pretty straight ahead “documentary” style work. (Of course we could debate how autobiographical “documentary” work can be). Anyway, around 1990 I had a chance to photograph corpses that were being dissected at a medical school and that changed everything for me. I am not sure if it was the experience of looking so closely at the inevitable or seeing the inside workings, but after that I felt somehow it was OK to do use myself as a source and not feel like everything had to come from the outside world. This is a roundabout way of humbling expressing that all of a sudden I found myself interesting. And I have always been a spy, someone who loves to eavesdrop on conversations and looks through windows and speculates on others’ lives. So in some way, this project and what it reveals is a way of spying on myself. There were, of course, hundreds of boring objects that I divested myself of during this project [“The Relative Value of Things], and of course I selected to photograph the more provocative ones, items that would create some kind of narrative and work off each other to put together a “story” of who I am — which may or may not reveal anything of true substance.
 
DR: About your lint “drawings”. Do you feel any affinity with the photographer Vik Muniz?  He makes representational images from all kinds of cast-off things: food, garbage, industrial machine parts. His intentions are obviously very different from yours, but I’m thinking of how, in your current show, you take something of no value and turn it into things of real value – value in the sense that they’re for sale in a gallery.
 
Lint book covers, 2007-08, 10.5 x 8.5" each, digital color images
 
NP: There are aspects of Vik Muniz’s work that I admire very much particularly that notion of using humble materials like dirt, sugar, chocolate, thread, garbage, clouds etc.  I also deeply appreciate the creative surprise of his work, especially the earlier work. But the artist who really blows my mind that way is Tom Friedman. Earlier I mentioned that experience of photographing in a medical lab and how that was a huge, creative turning point for me. Well, the second significant event for me was seeing a Tom Friedman show that Renny Pritikin curated when he was at the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts in San Francisco.  He was the first artist I really looked at who used humble materials in a way that inspired me. I am not saying he was the first to do that but I am saying it was a show that sunk in and changed the way I worked.
 
DR: Your projects tend to have, what they call in the tech world, “long tails”. That is, they are multi-part; they spread “virally” out of one idea into others.  Can you talk about that?
 
NP: Well, I think that is how the mind works: one idea just naturally leads to another and that is very exciting to me. Again back to Tom Friedman. Before I saw that show I was a photographer — and I don’t want to sound overly dramatic — but when I left that show I was no longer a photographer; I clearly realized I was interested in ideas and responses and that finding the correct delivery system for that idea or response was what mattered.  I started working with other materials and seeing connections and accepting that one idea couldn’t be thoroughly explored through just one medium or one question. 
 
Hair Drawing
 For example, is it really interesting to look at objects that once had value that no longer do, like the objects I got rid of in “The Relative Value of Things”. And if you are going to do that why not add a joke about collecting on top of it by making a set of twelve books that are all the same on the inside but when seen together as a grid on the wall, create a new piece. Meaning, if you are a collector and you want that piece, you have to accept the redundancy of the inside of the books.  I find that amusing just as I find it amusing to look at my own contradictions and foibles.
 
DR: Speaking of projects that are long-term, let’s talk about your fingerprinting project, “Do You Have 30 Seconds and Can You Get Your Finger Dirty?” You’ve collected more than 8,000 prints. Where do you find the time to do this?  These kinds of transactions are far more time-consuming than just giving the DMV your thumbprint.
 
NP: I started this project in 2002 and you are the first person who ever pointed out how time-consuming it is. And you are right, there is a huge part of this project that is invisible and gets forgotten, and that is all the conversations that have happened between myself and these 8,000 or so people. I don’t have in-depth conversations with everyone, but often getting a fingerprint leads to a conversation and that takes time and consideration. There is something intimate about this project. I must hold a stranger’s hand, ask some intimate questions and get to experience this person who is trusting enough to participate. Each time I take a person’s hand in this project and put ink in their finger and press it on the paper I learn a little something about them. People give away quite a bit by their touch and how they react to a stranger taking their hand.  Some people get really excited and have ideas they want to share or stories they want to tell and of course I love to listen to them. So yes it can take a lot of time. 
 
DR: You mentioned that you recently started to split your studio time between SF and Woodland. Bay Area people are probably scratching their heads. What’s up with that?
 
NP: It started as simply a logistical move. I teach at CSU Sacramento but live in San Francisco.  Making a 90 mile drive twice a day four days a week just wasn’t something I was willing to do.  When I got the job I decided I would get a place near school and set up my studio there.  Since I live in SF I didn’t want to have a second place in Sacramento, I wanted to try something different, something smaller and by luck I came upon Woodland.  I drove down Main Street, saw a for rent sign in a store window, went in and talked to the landlord who said “Oh you won’t like the space for living it is too big, it used to be a dance studio.”  Well, can you imagine hearing anything better?  I was hooked; I rented the spot immediately, all 2,500 square feet not realizing it was actually 30 miles or so from school. 
 
I think if Bay Area people saw what kind of space is available outside of the city, Yolo County would be overrun. Woodland just has an aesthetic I appreciate — lots of characters, a great public library, good dumpsters, lots of deserted buildings on Main Street to walk by and contemplate, all sorts of people, loud drunks occasionally yelling on Saturday night and beautiful church bells ringing on Sunday morning, and I can watch and hear it all anonymously from the second floor of this historic downtown building.  I spend a lot of time alone there and I like that very much- it is where I work and where I think.
 
DR:“Someday I will be as insignificant as a swarm of summer insects”. It’s true. But why are you entertaining this thought?
 
NP: Oh boy how can I not?  To paraphrase John Coplans, we are terminal beings. That is our condition. We have to live out life wondering if there is truly any meaning to what we do and think. We don’t have much time and everything we hold as important slips away from us. Yet even given this irrefutable knowledge we persist. We live with this contradiction: there is nothing more important than what we are and yet there is nothing more inconsequential. It is heavy and hard and dark and yet all we can do in the face of it is make the best use of the time we have. 
Denial of Death & Watches from Various Men in My Life, 2009, graphite and red ink on paper, 2 color digital prints, 11 x 25.5"
 
DR: What haven’t you spoken about here that you really want people to know?
 

NP: I would like to end with two things from John Cage’s rules: Be happy whenever you can manage it. Enjoy yourself. It is later than you think. And here is the real kicker: Save everything. It may come in handy later!

 

 

 

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